Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

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Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby Kris@WLP » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:27 pm

OK, I forgot to post a thread here for page 401.

And now page 402 is up...

... which will be Padunk's last.

You see, doing commissions for fur fans is Padunk's day job, and making a comic page takes enough time for four or five commissions. She had to make a choice between paying her bills and doing the comic... so, towards the end of December, she told me she had to bow out.

The comic will resume in February under the pen of Mischa Cel Frumos, an artist I've worked with on shirt designs and other things for quite some time now. I hope you like her work... which can be either really cute or really dark, and one of those is useful for where the story's about to go.
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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby Nopewolf » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:25 am

You won't see me complain in the slightest. Thanks to Padunk for trying but holy shit today's page was painful to look at:

Image

So lets get straight to the point because this silence has been ridiculous and I'm not just going to backdown as the traction my post got made it pretty clear that the others are tired of it too; you need to work on your communication skills.

This has been an issue over the years and not just a recent problem. "Oh well my computer..." yeah that's not exactly a great excuse when another user references your ability to post on Facebook but can't tell us anything for almost two months. This isn't the first time we've had horrific radio silence and you gotta work on it man.

This whole situation with Padunk should have been something we were informed of as soon as you two came to an agreement, and if this was just decided on then fine but stuff like this really shouldn't be the split second before a trade over.


For people curious about the newest replacement artist this is probably the closest to what we can expect to get art style wise: Image

Fingers crossed this doesn't go south. We already have old fans dropping out and I'm on my last legs as well, this comic was great when we all started reading in school but it's just sideways since the original artist was essentially kicked off the project.
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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby Kris@WLP » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:44 am

Nopewolf wrote:So lets get straight to the point because this silence has been ridiculous and I'm not just going to backdown as the traction my post got made it pretty clear that the others are tired of it too; you need to work on your communication skills.

This has been an issue over the years and not just a recent problem. "Oh well my computer..." yeah that's not exactly a great excuse when another user references your ability to post on Facebook but can't tell us anything for almost two months. This isn't the first time we've had horrific radio silence and you gotta work on it man.

This whole situation with Padunk should have been something we were informed of as soon as you two came to an agreement, and if this was just decided on then fine but stuff like this really shouldn't be the split second before a trade over.


To give you a timeline:

Padunk asked to leave the comic about a week before Christmas. Before this point I thought the production bottleneck was just a temporary consequence of her commissions queue and the fact that the updates were currently two-page updates, but she told me the work load was too much for her to afford. She also offered to stay on long enough for a new artist to be found.

I contacted an artist whose living circumstances hadn't permitted her to take on the job last year. Those circumstances had changed, and she agreed. I decided to make the announcement with the next update, which would be, I was assured, before the new year. I chose not to announce Padunk's departure immediately because I wanted to minimize negativity, because I wanted to have the new artist lined up first, and because I wanted a clean transition from one artist to the next.

The pages didn't arrive until last Friday, and the goodbye pic not until Tuesday. Padunk's commissions queue was that badly backed up. And that left all of you hanging.

You're probably right that I should have said something sooner, but I'm always disinclined to speak when I have no good or satisfactory answers. And until this week's update art all came in, I didn't. I'm sorry for that, and all I can say is we'll see how things improve starting in February.
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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby Nopewolf » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:58 pm

Kris@WLP wrote:
Nopewolf wrote:So lets get straight to the point because this silence has been ridiculous and I'm not just going to backdown as the traction my post got made it pretty clear that the others are tired of it too; you need to work on your communication skills.

This has been an issue over the years and not just a recent problem. "Oh well my computer..." yeah that's not exactly a great excuse when another user references your ability to post on Facebook but can't tell us anything for almost two months. This isn't the first time we've had horrific radio silence and you gotta work on it man.

This whole situation with Padunk should have been something we were informed of as soon as you two came to an agreement, and if this was just decided on then fine but stuff like this really shouldn't be the split second before a trade over.


To give you a timeline:

Padunk asked to leave the comic about a week before Christmas. Before this point I thought the production bottleneck was just a temporary consequence of her commissions queue and the fact that the updates were currently two-page updates, but she told me the work load was too much for her to afford. She also offered to stay on long enough for a new artist to be found.

I contacted an artist whose living circumstances hadn't permitted her to take on the job last year. Those circumstances had changed, and she agreed. I decided to make the announcement with the next update, which would be, I was assured, before the new year. I chose not to announce Padunk's departure immediately because I wanted to minimize negativity, because I wanted to have the new artist lined up first, and because I wanted a clean transition from one artist to the next.

The pages didn't arrive until last Friday, and the goodbye pic not until Tuesday. Padunk's commissions queue was that badly backed up. And that left all of you hanging.

You're probably right that I should have said something sooner, but I'm always disinclined to speak when I have no good or satisfactory answers. And until this week's update art all came in, I didn't. I'm sorry for that, and all I can say is we'll see how things improve starting in February.


Just check in with us once in a while brother. We're your community, many of us for an extensive period of time, good or bad just make some small talk and let us know you're okay, what's going on with the comic, etc. If I check PITW's page every few days and you have some tidbit on how things are going I won't complain and I don't think many other people will either. If you have good or bad news post it regardless, I'd rather hear bad than never hear anything.

You got this.
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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby matteso585 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:58 pm

Finally, an update.
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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby TimGee250 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:40 pm

I am sorry that Padunk didn't work out, but yeah, her artwork wasn't really suited for PiW as I see it. But, since she can drop PiW and pay her bills with what he has left, obviously there's no shortage of talent on her part.

If it were up to me, I'd be calling in Dirk Tiede, but from what I've seen of her work, I expect Mischa will do just fine, it's definitely higher quality than perhaps even Ben's had been.
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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby Furelise » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:04 pm

Just popping in to see how things were working out. I had dipped out after the bar1 drought so I'm looking forward to diving back into allot of new conten... oh... Well, I'll check back next year!
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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby CmdrPowers » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:20 pm

Dammit, Kris! I really liked Padunk's work...but I completely understand and agree with her reasons. Thanks for finding a new artist so soon.

Kris, I can't criticize your decisions the way some people are doing. We meet often enough at conventions (coming to MechaCon?) that we touch bases fairly frequently. I'm a tad miffed that I have yet to receive book 2 (how many years now?), but I know it's coming. I completely understand that your priorities must be met or NOTHING comes our way. I wish people would get that.

One of the problems with long lag time is the lack of continuity. It's far too easy to drop story lines when you have months between them. I've been following PitW long enough that I do know the story and relish the glimpses into these character's convoluted lives. It's always very entertaining. I hope that your new artist will be able to keep up and that you will be able to keep up with them.

Your friend,

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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby AraChiya » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:14 pm

I said this was going to happen... Doing commissions is how I raise funds as well but I would have made damned sure PitW would have had priority since I offered my services to do it. I am extremely disappointed in Kris for not replying to any of my messages or samples... I can understand that you're pissed with BAR1 so you would have wanted the characters in the new artist's style but you never bothered to inform me of this. I could have easily have put the characters in my style and still made them look like the originals. The new artist is losing the manga style you claimed to want for your comics Kris or has that been thrown out the window too??? We would not have had the arguments that you and BAr1 had since it is your story and I am doing it as a commission. I am well know for working hard to get the work the way the commissioner wants it and I would have been able to stick with the original arrangement you had with Bar1 instead of being paid as a commission.
It happened twice now, you've lost two artists.. Will it happen a third time? Will I care the next time it happens? How many more fans did it cost you for that poor decision?
Well, I will continue with my own comics and commissions since you chose another artist after I made a slot available to do PitW (in reality I knew I was not going to be selected in the first place) so... should I prepare myself as another back up artist just in case or should I just forget about PitW completely and dedicate myself completely to other works?
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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby ClockTickRobot » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:50 am

Late to the party and uninvited as usual, but I feel the community has dwindled enough that I should say something at least.

I've seen this sentiment around a bit here and there but I don't think Bar1 staying on would have really changed much. PaDunk's art was rather different but I can't in any honestly say it wasn't fitting of the already somewhat humorous/ridiculous tone of the comic anyway. That being said, not pointing any fingers (mainly because I know pretty well that artists can have really messy priorities anyway) but I wouldn't be surprised if she bowed out over some degree of resistance around here.

Either way, my opinion of art changes is kind of the same as everyone else: simpler is fine, so long as the updates stay kind of regular. I don't ask much as a guy who wastes his time reading webcomics since i'm fine letting them sit idle for weeks or even months (haven't checked back on Freefall since 2014 baby!) so they build up a few pages before I get back to them. Then again, I have no idea how many other people do that since I don't really compare notes with anyone.

I am also still open to just posting the script or a written story of the events so we know how this all turns out. Even speaking as a giant cheapskate who's pirated 99.9% of everything I've ever watched, listened to or played, I would flat out pay $20 for just a bulleted list in a PDF file at this point. Perhaps more, since I've literally been reading this comic since high school.

Though I guess I'm still willing to be patient anyway since this comic is kind of oldschool in how it does things (don't take that the wrong way). As someone trying to get my shit together as a writer (with my own annoying procrastinating artist friend to boot) I'm honestly really bewildered at how easily some dope with an Ipad can crank out four full-colour pages a week on Tumblr or someshit. So, I know kind of firsthand that comparing everyone to that is ridiculous, and thus I'll be patient. I'm also not gonna make any threats about giving up on the comic because, again, I just ignore the webcomics I read for long stretches anyway. If this site goes under i won't know about it until the random day I click the link in my bookmarks and get a 404 page.

Whatever happens next, I'll take what I can get. Even if I'm the last one I guess.
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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby AraChiya » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:02 pm

Ok then, I take the being ignored again as a don't hold your breath in expecting an answer. They are right, Kris.. you need to work on your communication skills.. you screwed up on what was to be our joint project and then ignored my offering of services and now chose not to answer again. So I withdraw my offer to be back up and you lost another PitW fan. I will not return.
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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby Kris@WLP » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:37 pm

AraChiya wrote:Ok then, I take the being ignored again as a don't hold your breath in expecting an answer. They are right, Kris.. you need to work on your communication skills.. you screwed up on what was to be our joint project and then ignored my offering of services and now chose not to answer again. So I withdraw my offer to be back up and you lost another PitW fan. I will not return.


To be blunt, what am I supposed to say? I had an artist waiting for an opening already. I never threw PitW open for auditions, and I didn't promise you anything that I can recall. I'm flattered when anybody draws PitW characters. but that's all. I'm certainly not going to tell the new artist, "Sorry, I take it back," at this point.
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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby Henpecked » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:41 am

You could've talked to Ara when s/he effectively auditioned for the job after BAR-1 left, telling him/her thanks but the position had already been filled. And then when Padunk left, you could've either reached out to him/her about the position being open again and given him/her a fair shake.

Or, conversely, you could said "Thanks, I'm flattered, but I'm probably not going to find any replacement artists from the fan community." You know, acknowledge the effort to some degree.

I'm sure you probably had reasons why you chose Padunk, and then why you chose your new artist. Those reasons probably really sound good in your head. But unless you talk to the people who are actually reading your comic, all we can do is speculate, and rebuffing a fan who wanted to step in when you lost not one but two artists is not a good look at all.

What could have been a simple artist replacement issue has metastasized into a massive, massive PR fiasco on your part, Kris. I'll be honest - I'm coming here more for the forum than the comic because there's been way more drama here than we've seen from PitW for three years.
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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby MitchellTF » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:46 pm

*nods* Kris...you're a GREAT guy, and I love your stuff. But I repeat...you sucked on the communication. I know you were trying to be polite to Padunk, and you were trying to make sure nothing reflected badly...

And you dropped the ball. Everyone had noticed something horrible had happened...but you weren't talking with people. Which meant, well...we had no idea why things are actually going wrong.

I love your comic, but not knowing WHEN it will update means, well, I can't really rely upon it for updates. If I knew what was wrong, I'd funnel money in, I'd invest...and heck, I ask people how to help you at conventions! But, if the fans don;t know when the problems will be better?


I would love to send money to you, too. (And, in fact, need to do that!) I backed the books, and would back more. (Still a patreon, as well)
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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby Kris@WLP » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:53 pm

MitchellTF wrote:*nods* Kris...you're a GREAT guy, and I love your stuff. But I repeat...you sucked on the communication. I know you were trying to be polite to Padunk, and you were trying to make sure nothing reflected badly...


I've tried five different responses to this post, and every time I've deleted them because they would only make the situation worse.

If I'm silent, it means one of three things: (1) I don't have the answer, (2) the situation is not under my control, or (3) I have decided to ignore the question/demand because it's of a kind that the person asking should know better than to have asked/demanded under the circumstances.

AraChiya's "drop the new artist and take me instead" was quite definitely the third category. The collapse of Padunk's update schedule, and BAR-1's before that, were (1) and (2) territory combined.

The problem is, "I don't know" is NEVER an acceptable answer. It only makes things much, much worse. "It's not in my hands" is almost as bad, with the added problem that putting pressure on the person who is in control of the situation is often counterproductive. That's why I said so little about BAR-1's growing reluctance to work on the project.

And although I will lie to you all to a limited extent (because promotion requires enthusiasm and cheerfulness to function), I'm not going to deliberately tell you something I know up front is unequivocally not true. I have been made a liar by circumstances many times, and I'm ashamed of that every time it happens, but I try to avoid it whenever possible.

So I will generally remain silent until and unless I have some definite answers and a definite solution that I believe will work. If that means no answer for a long time, I still think a silent "no answer" is less damaging to all than an open, "I have no answers, I'm a total incompetent." Which is why I think I'm making a terrible mistake in posting this, since I think this is the sixth attempt to respond which will only make things worse.

BTW, Mischa's first page goes up tomorrow night. It's time for Gus and Con to have a talk.


And yeah, I know this answer only makes everything even worse, too. But I've got nothing better except more silence, and since you want me to not be silent,
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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby Henpecked » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:26 pm

Kris@WLP wrote:If I'm silent, it means one of three things: (1) I don't have the answer, (2) the situation is not under my control, or (3) I have decided to ignore the question/demand because it's of a kind that the person asking should know better than to have asked/demanded under the circumstances.

AraChiya's "drop the new artist and take me instead" was quite definitely the third category. The collapse of Padunk's update schedule, and BAR-1's before that, were (1) and (2) territory combined.


Would it have killed you to say, "Hey thanks, I appreciate the interest, but I already have someone in mind"? Or, "I'd rather not bring a fan on as an artist because I have a specific protocol on hiring talent"?

The fact that you would characterize a fan volunteering to come on board as your artist, as something you actively ignore because "they should know better than to ask" is incredibly distressing, and honestly, smacks of narcissism. Ara offered to help out in good faith, and you didn't have the decency to tell her no and be done with it, opting instead to let her twist in the wind while you hired on other artists. That's a serious character flaw I'd have looked at.

Look, I get it. You have a vision for this comic. It's probably just as frustrating to you that this story you've had in your head for probably 15 years is having such trouble getting out, as it is for us waiting weeks on end for a page. You probably feel like you're incapable of making anyone happy, because the options you have right now are staying quiet and appearing detached, or answering questions with bad answers that will actively piss people off. (And yes, I'll readily admit that the posts about car troubles and underwhelming sales at cons do get old after a while.) But hey, we're still here. We still want to see this comic cross the finish line. We just want to know that this is still something you're working towards. Silence is often interpreted as abandonment in this medium.

I would be willing to put up with weekly "My Car Blew Up Again" posts just so we know that you're still around.
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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby Kris@WLP » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:03 pm

Henpecked wrote:The fact that you would characterize a fan volunteering to come on board as your artist, as something you actively ignore because "they should know better than to ask" is incredibly distressing, and honestly, smacks of narcissism.


No. That's not what Ara did, at least from where I sit.

What Ara did was react to an announcement of who the new artist was by saying, "No, it should have been me. How dare you not pick me?"

If I had said, "I'm looking for a new artist, please send submissions," and Ara had come forward, I'd have been flattered.

But what Ara did was demand that I reverse a decision that had already been made and announced. Ara demanded that I take a job away from another artist and give it to them instead.

And, yes, I firmly believe people ought to know better than to do things like that.
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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby ClockTickRobot » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:58 pm

Admittedly I have to say that the silence thing is an issue. I mean, just think about it from a practical standpoint, you could get hit by a bus in the mean time and nobody around here is going to notice for quite awhile. I'm aware that regular posts of "X thing went wrong again" eventually drive people to frustration since the internet is filled with projects that choked to death on excuses, but at least with those it gives some indication that you're still invested in the project. I don't think you even have to post news on the forum either, just a little notification in the front page's News section is enough for me. No interaction or arguements required, simple as that. I was pretty disheartened when the News section stopped being used for anything since it was an easy way to keep track of things without having to screw around with the forum.
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Re: Pages 401 and 402, and news about Padunk

Postby MitchellTF » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:24 am

...Okay. I was being a jerk. You have good reasons for being silent. Thank you for a good and well reasoned rebuttal to my post.
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