Might vs. Right.

[Les]

'Might makes Right' is the ultimate authority, when rule of law breaks down in any specific or general instance then who can do what depends on force and the ability to wield it (hence why it's called 'Law EnFORCEment'.) This simple fact however does not invalidate all the 'lesser' sources of authority one has the option to appeal to before going for the bullets and bayonets, nore does it convey any special legitimacy to those with the most power to do violence (save rendering such legitimacy largely a moot point.) If people like and respect you, you don't Have to beat-up on them to get your way.

Nobody likes or respects Gus Cramer, his dreams of alphahood thus are ultimately futile. I wonder if he is that delusional that he can't see it or he can and is just in denial, but any political entity from the smallest clique to the grandest nation exists on the sufferance of it's members. A Nation can take steps to keep it's populace in-line, but generaly in the long-term that's a losing propisition. A werewolf pack, however, is not a nation that can revoke passports and close it's borders. If Gus ever does achieve his dream of having a position of un-assailable power from whence he can wrest Alphahood of the Pack the Pack will more likely simply dissolve with it's members going their own ways rather than suffer Gus's leadership, leaving him Alpha of nothing.

I wonder.. if this has not already happened.

[Kris@WLP]

There's a lot to respond to here.

First, let's examine Gus's mentality. Gus believes that strength and strength alone determine the rights of a person- not just in werewolf society but as an absolute. The strong can do whatever they want; the weaker submit and obey, or they die. Gus, should he ever gain alphahood, intends to take everything he wants and slaughter at will anyone who attempts to flee... and he believes that this is the right and just way for everyone to live. Since Gus is confident of his strength- he believes no one but Con Nero can defeat him in battle- he has no doubts of his ability to keep the pack in line.

Now for the rest of the pack. Only a couple of werewolves in the pack are old enough to remember a time before Con was the alpha. However, the younger ones- by which I mean Walt, Sally, and that age group- have been told stories and taught the pre-Con lore, in many cases, by dissident parents who, for one reason or another, aren't around anymore. They understand what, under the old system, an alpha could do with impunity... and even those who don't know have heard Gus, who has never been shy about preaching his philosophy.

The pack's strength lies in numbers; however, that only works if the pack is united and together. The problem is that there are few things that packs can unify on- in that they're very human. An individual werewolf seeking to buck the alpha, no matter how wicked the alpha is, is not guaranteed the opportunity for a united front to overthrow the alpha- some will hold back from fear, others because they benefit from the alpha's policies, and some because they don't like the victim.

And the only hopes to get rid of a bad alpha, under the old system, are: (a) hope a new wolf comes along capable of defeating the alpha; (b) organize a mass overthrow- not easy and never a good thing either for the pack or for the Secret; or (c) flee.

By "flee" I do not mean "wrap up your affairs, sell your home, look for new work in another city, say your goodbyes," etc. I mean "maybe pack one bag, leave everything else behind, and run in the night as far and as fast as you can, giving no hint that you intend to do so beforehand." Anything less, under the old system, could mean death from an alpha determined to extract total obedience.

People vanishing, by the way, is not good for the Secret either. It happens, and it happens quite a bit, but it's discouraged.

North American werewolf society has, by and large, moved well beyond this. Peter's pack, under the alpha before Con, was well behind the times, and it's still not secure in the modern day. Most other packs take "vote with your feet," indeed voting in general, for granted. The alpha election two years ago was Peter's pack's first ever internal election- so far as anyone knows. The werewolves are uncertain, and where Gus is concerned, they're nervous and fearful. They do NOT want to have to abandon everything. (In most cases, that's quite a bit- remember what I said about werewolves tending to be successes in human society.)

They don't want Gus to ever be alpha... because they're afraid that, if Gus does become alpha, they won't be able to get rid of him.

So as things stand, Gus thinks he could keep the pack in line, and the pack thinks Gus could keep them in line- or, at least, that there would be a lot of bloodshed to settle the issue.

These are not facts, but in politics facts are almost never the important factor.

[K-MacK]

From what you are saying, Kris, I get the feeling that once Con decides to take his leave of the Pack and retire to seclusion that anything could happen...and just might.
You've brought up the point that Con is the only reason that Gus is even trying to be acceptable, since he knows that he would come off second best in a confrontation with Con Nero, courtesy of Samuel Colt & Co. if for no other reason.
This is not necessarily so with Walt Goodwin. Walt has not apparently had to fight for his Office, but has come into it by means of a General Election orchestrated by Con. Perhaps, should Gus try to take over after Con has departed, Walt would use the same method- Ballistic Silver- but it's clear that the aura of fear that is keeping Gus under some minor sort of control might not be there without Con to enforce it.
I do have to wonder, though; would the entire pack turn on Gus should he try to sieze power? He may be a big bad Wolf ( in his own shower), but could he beat down an entire pack determined to kill him, if he tried a take over?
I realize that this might be something of a spoiler, but I am curious...

[Kris@WLP]

*ahem*

Jack Goodwin.

Walt Stubbe.

Please don't confuse the two. }:-{D

[Kris@WLP]

As for your question...

I tried to make the point that getting the pack unified in the first place against Gus- not merely in opinion but in actual combat- would be intensely difficult. You'd essentially need another alpha to do it. There might not be (probably wouldn't be) anyone fighting alongside Gus, but a lot of folks would stand on the sidelines rather than risk being on the losing (read: dead) side in that fight.

And Gus is strong enough to take on multiple werewolves at one time- strong enough AND skilled enough. So far as I know at the moment, only Walt Stubbe thinks he can take Gus on one-on-one, and the general consensus in the pack is that Walt's idiocy would make it an easy kill for Gus should that happen.

That said, if the pack DID gather together and act as one, Gus would not be long for the world. He might take one or two with him in close combat, but he'd be toast. Without Con or Jack to unify them, though...

[bar1scorpio]

Walt's got the strength, size, and speed, but never really had the brains. He beleives too muchin old-style fighting, tooth & claw, and it's likely Gus has a few silver bullets of his own.

Walt likes Jack. Thinks he's tougher than Jack, but also realizes that more people like Jack as well. Jack trusts Walt more than Gus, and feels that Walt might be an effective enough check against Gus. That's why Walt is officially the Beta.

Actually, I doubt we'd even go to that kind of confrontation... because it'd be a pretty damned dark turn, and concentrate on alot of characters outside of the main storyline. But a fight over pack alpha in this town, would probably be less snarling, tooth fang & claw, and more of a gunfight.

But even there, would it be straightforward? Both sides have a secret to protect. Gus or Jack going after each other? One a Sheriff's Deputy, the other Editor in Cheif of the city paper? You might see a buildup. And given Gus' likelyhood to abuse any authority... you might see him behind bars for racketeering, corruption, or some other charge that the paper 'uncovered'. Meanwhile, Gus would try to peg Jack somehow, creating a situation of arrest where lethal force was 'necessary'.

It might be more than raw power in this fight, it might be a chessgame. And Sarah might end up a 12 foot tall pawn.

[beller]

[Kris@WLP]

[Ganthan]

[Happygun]

[Kris@WLP]

[Les]

[Kris@WLP]

[Les]

[Kris@WLP]

[K-MacK]

Might it simply be put: Gus dreams and schemes, while Con is a complete professional? Gus has an enemy in himself: he doesn't think things through, as a general statement.
His barely controlled anger and destructive nature are not a match for Con's professionalism.
All the traditional things to the contrary, I suspect that if he thought he could get away with it, he'd take out the current Alpha from behind, with no hint of a fair fight.
And, considering his concept of Conquering Humanity, that alone (if taken seriously) would get him killed. You can't "Conquer Humanity" and "Keep the Secret". Not even with a paper bag over your head to hide your identity. People would notice the tails and the feet.
Pity there aren't some nice little blue pills for Werewolves, or other mental relaxants...although I just can't envision a "Mellow Gus". There are limits.

[Kris@WLP]

Gus actually does think things through, insofar as he is able. He has two major obstacles, though. First, Gus is utterly incapable of thinking of himself as either vulnerable or fallible. Second, Gus cannot conceive of others opposing or defying him except in the actual event- he has Dubya-level self-confidence in the rightness of his cause. As a result, Gus creates plans and schemes which have absolutely no provision for other people doing things other than what he expects, making those plans fatally flawed in most cases.

[Ganthan]